simple machines forum

Sword of Moonlight => Demos => Topic started by: Verdite on August 14, 2013, 02:04:12 PM

Title: Moratheia
Post by: Verdite on August 14, 2013, 02:04:12 PM
(http://www.swordofmoonlight.net/bbs2/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=154.0;attach=979;image)

This is the official Moratheia Sword of Moonlight thread. All news etc goes in here.

Summary

Moratheia is possibly the longest and most involving Sword of Moonlight project to date that has been in development for over 2.5 years. Many iterations and tests of the game have been released in order to better polish the custom gameplay, system and enemies, as the project uses no original stock art from the original SOM install or any other game.
However the final public release is still being held back in order to offer the best experience the author intends to deliver.

With original and unique settings, music, sound effects, consistent imaginative art forms, faster combat, involving story and good pacing, Moratheia gives players a Kings Field experience like no other.


Site Administrator speaking: It's 2019, I'm putting a copy of my Moratheia 2.1 demo folder here in case anyone wants to see it. I didn't do anything to prepare it. You may want to change some settings. More in Reply #12. The file is 1.24GB big. It is Moratheia 2.1.zip in http://www.swordofmoonlight.net/holy and you need to combine these to form a download URL yourself so it's not too easy for WWW spiders to download/suck out this site's bandwidth. (EDITED: To be clear, you won't find the screens from Reply #9 down in this demo. I hope that version is ever published, but this is not it.)

2021 UPDATE: If you can there's a new supersampling mode you can toggle with Alt+F1 that will remove most of the cracks that are caused by the do_aa extension. It will come at a cost of "worse" game performance, so if your PC gets choppy when you turn it on, try to not use widescreen first, and then consider lowering resolution a little or just turn it off and live with the cracks. This demo could have much better frame rates but it has many, many unnecessary polygons (you can't even see) which nevertheless must be converted to pixels...

Oh and you should add the following to the Ex.ini file to get rid of most of the black pixels on the edges of grass and trees. A lot of these things have thick black edges originally but recently SomEx.dll has switched to defaulting to treating 0,0,0 as a hole in a texture whereas prior any color between 0,0,0 and 7,7,7 would form a hole.


April 2022 UPDATE: A INI setting (shown below) called do_fix_trip_zone_range=no is needed to change maps because it seems the transfer events aren't situated at the same elevation as the level geometry.

Code: (Moratheia Ex.ini) [Select]
[Bugfix]
;this demo was made when black colors up to 7,7,7
;were taken to be colorkey pixels (even though the
;game program requests a pure black only colorkey)
do_fix_colorkey = no

;this is needed so map change events extend out to
;infinity elevation. I'm not sure why they're not bound
;to objects at the ground level, but they're not
do_fix_trip_zone_range = no

ATTACHMENT INFO

I'm uploading my Ex.ini file in case it's helpful, but be warned it has changes to the damage formulas. I doubt you can play this demo without such changes anyway.
Title: Re: WIP Project Rathmor thread
Post by: Holey Moley on August 14, 2013, 04:37:55 PM
Everything looks amazing. Especially the new monsters. I think you've found just the right level of detail to not fall over into the valley of parody where so many contemporary games find themselves.

There's too much to individually comment on here I think. But I've said it before. The only games that really look like Shadow of the Colossus is King's Field. I hope that as a SOM community emerges we are able to stay this course so that SOM games will be simple and beautiful, not garish and cartoonish. And I hope you will keep maintaining every instance of Rathmor instead of abandoning it the way commercial games are. And I hope you will stick around for the brutal standardization process that will begin the day after the first iteration of Rathmor shows itself.


PS: I am glad how the Eggthief came out. Always glad when my consultation are not for naught. And again the new Alkarg (nail walkers) and environs look amazing.

I am going to make a point to look into why these images are escaping the confines of the layout, and see about adding the popup zoom functionality already enjoyed by the rest of the site as well.

I'd also like to see if it isn't a simple trick to make the black knockout texels go away in SOM_PRM and SOM_MAP per link (http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9660/2f7f.jpg). I don't know if they might be instructive to authors. I think so. I may well opt to make them visible by default (you might even have to click a check box every time the preview windows are opened)


EDITED: Like I keep saying. Keep it up and you can be game of the year. Mark my words. There's a revolution brewing... and it goes without saying. Rathmor is going to be its premier tour de force.
Title: Re: Rathmor
Post by: Holey Moley on August 14, 2013, 06:13:29 PM
@Verdite,

Can you provide a URL directly to your older information at  www.swordofmoonlight.com where you provide the link to som.com in the opening post?

Also, I've moved the topic (and created a new subforum in the process) but for the record, it doesn't look like this will have changed its URL (so any outside links to it should still work.)
PS: Happy B-day Rathmor :blow:
Title: Re: Rathmor
Post by: Holey Moley on January 22, 2016, 01:56:26 PM

I've noticed the images in the top post are not displaying. They've probably gone from the WWW. I will delete this thread before too long, if it isn't resurrected in one form or another.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Verdite on January 25, 2016, 07:39:49 PM
Despite being unwell I managed to update some of the text and added a placeholder title.

Oh, I'd also like to say, again, thank you so much for offering encouragement and good feedback, Holy. I'm very grateful for your support.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on January 25, 2016, 11:42:55 PM
I like what you did there with the A :eek:

I know I've dogged you over the past year or less, but I hope the world hasn't seen the last of this effort, but it's going to require a lot more attention than it got in 2015.

It would be good to get a big game on display here on this website. I read the swordofmoonlight.com forums, and ever so often someone invariably makes a thread asking about problems that have been fixed for years, only to be told that there's nothing that can be done about it. I don't know what makes people go to that website for information first, unless it's just that it has some links to games on the front page (edited: and this also sickens me every time because I get the sinking feeling the people offering the advice have some kind of unspoken vendetta against my work, because I can't understand why anyone would carry on with an inferior product and even advise others that there's no alternative. Also, for readers, I am banned from that website, so I cannot offer advise myself. Banned for abuse of authority reasons; hint, I was not in a position of authority.)

The webmaster does occasionally explain SomEx when these threads occur, but people do not show interest in it, and these explanations tend to come very late as he doesn't seem to read the forum as often as I do (clicking on it is more or less one of my daily clicks along with checking mail and this website)


I'd also like to have something to show people to introduce SOM with. It would be good if you could make a miniature version of Moratheia so to show off all of SOM's potential while still coming in at a reasonably small download size. The world of computer games seems to be expanding into a vast universe while simultaneously getting stretched impossibly thin. I am unsure if anything in it appeals to me any longer, but whenever something does, it's very often I resign myself to not investigating it, because doing that would mean pulling down multiple gigabytes of data. I mean I can do that in the middle of the night with my satellite based ISP thankfully... but it's not the same as streaming an HD movie over a service like Netflix, because it's permanently on your system, until you finish it, or delete it after 10min (which is almost guaranteed to be the case) and I just don't need the hassle. If video games don't figure out a streaming model, I probably will never partake in them again as long as the download sizes keep ballooning (never mind the load screens and 2hr upfront install times) so I'm very committed to making SOM a streaming media format.


PS: I had a bad weekend too. Visiting my family in town is usually about as pleasant as being sick! and I usually end up actually sick once back home, having been exposed to all of the bugs in town!! Speaking of being sick, the guy responsible for probably the most SOM projects posted in that forum the other day that he's been stricken with cancer ... I don't know if this is the best place to mention it, but just passing along the news. He didn't offer anymore details. I hope for SOM's sake the same fate does not befall me (that would literally suck for SOM :saint:)

PPS: Speaking of the unspeakable ... I was very impressed by a game of late called That Dragon, Cancer. It looks like King's Field, in a good way, and does an impressive job of accomplishing the objects of my hopes and desires for this medium--3D--and SOM. I think this is the direction 3D is heading in, I really hope it is anyway. I want it to be like an arm of literature, but right now it's more like an arm of your childhood toy box. I only worry that TDC has already set the bar too high for projects like it, that could result in fewer people trying to do the same kind of thing, for fear of being compared unfavorably, or just for feeling like it's been done already, and relatively well. It also sets a precedent, that may inadvertently short-circuit undeliberate experimentation going forward. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only person in the world that thinks about these things this way.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on February 12, 2016, 02:57:43 AM
Here are some understated screenshots I've lying around, from my time wandering around inside this environment. I actually really wish that I had more variety of places to wander around in, performing my various tests of Sword of Moonlight's features as they come online for the first time or receive very long awaited revisits.

Note that these images look better in the player, as the new antialiasing style extension works by showing many images over time, however it just so happens that two frames are overlaid, so a significant portion of the effect shows through in still images. The hairlike blades of tall grass in the background would look like so many unconnected shards shimmering in the sky otherwise.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on February 15, 2016, 11:48:57 AM
Administrator's note: there were briefly screenshots in the top post today, but they've been removed. Hopefully to provide new screenshots under circumstances that make Sword of Moonlight look as competent as possible. In the meantime, I would like to see screens in that post! It used to say "screens coming soon". :confused:
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on August 06, 2017, 12:13:06 PM
 :box:
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on August 21, 2017, 07:46:26 PM
The author asked me to share these full color images of new art they've worked on in the intervening years. I must admit that I don't know the status of Moratheia as a game proper. But I'm very excited about the prospect of a new demonstration on the horizon.

There are more attachments coming in the next post. I can't tell if these are new takes on Moratheia or new in-game environs. The image with the man is certainly reminiscent of a scene with all different models in the most recent demonstration.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on August 21, 2017, 07:52:28 PM
I increased the attachment limit to fit these into single posts. I don't know if I purposely set them so that the maximum attachment size was also the limit on the sum of attachments, but now the limit is just on the per attachment size. With up to 4.

These screens look to me how I imagine looking through cataracts does. I wonder if the 16-bit color mode would make them pop more, despite being basically gray, low-contrast, without changing monitor contrast settings.

I've seen other screens, which I like very much too. But they were JPGs and noisy around the dither, so I think they are not suitable to showcase a product. I may remove some of these screens if better ones emerge.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on October 29, 2017, 01:47:00 PM
Here's another screenshot from the 2.1 demo that is older than the previous post's pictures.

I think there is only one statue that looks like this, so it seems that either the objects in the newer picture are so old that the earth has grown up around them, or that these objects have been cut down to size.

I've traveled most of the 2.1 demo by now. It took me some years to find my way off the first map! Owing to technical issues and being perfectly happy with the map (and communication issues too, since Verdite rarely writes me and hadn't asked me to look at or fix anything in particular.)

Both sadly and gladly I feel like there is easily a full featured game here. I worry that it's not seemed to evolve much in the past two years or so. It would be a towering showcase for SOM and my work, if only. If audiences are not fickle I would not be surprised if it sold tens of thousands of copies with SOM in its present state. And I actually do think that SOM is in a good state to make its first appearance on the world stage. Even though I still think in total it is "alpha" software; Verdite is able to produce a product that is itself ready to hit the market.


P.S. I feel like my next move with SOM is going to be to add MHM features to objects. I think that's totally doable with what is available, and is a major limitation; much more so than anything I can think of that is on the radar.

(http://www.swordofmoonlight.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Moratheia9.png)
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on March 03, 2018, 06:42:57 PM
Note to self. Today, found Moratheia's motherload https://www.facebook.com/pg/moratheia/photos/?ref=page_internal
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on January 25, 2019, 09:28:48 AM
EDITED: To be clear, you won't find the screens from Reply #9 down in this demo. I hope that version is ever published, but this is not it.

Hey, 2019, I've added a demo's download link to the top-post. It's a big file. I've been feeling afraid a new version/demo may never see the light of day of late, and so am putting this file here, to showcase what SOM can do with all original artwork.

Some thoughts:

I think the Moratheia.ini file has the thumbsticks rotated. That is a feature I've yet to work into the game player. You may want to get rid of those lines in it.

In the Moratheia Ex.ini file you might look at function_overlay_mask and change the last 1 to 0 so it doesn't appear when the game starts. I don't recommend turning it off completely because it allows F3 mode to be invincible, which you will need because the damage ratings are all over the place. The damage calculus is modified to make the monsters reasonably fun to spar with. The F3 mode is different from the original, in that you will experience ill-effects and maybe take damage too, up to a point, but will not die. This makes it more fun/true to the experience. If you fall off the map it should return you.

The cracks (kind of like on the PlayStation) are because of the do_aa extension. It enables a novel form of antialiasing that doesn't tax your CPU/GPU one iota, but these cracks appear when models are not prepared to work with this feature.

5/21/2019: I'm backing up this banner in case it ever goes link dead. Better safe than sorry...
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Verdite on July 07, 2019, 03:51:51 PM
New artwork, depicting a key character and item.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on July 08, 2019, 08:10:40 PM
Dark as ever :cool:
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on December 21, 2019, 05:36:16 AM
Two of Verdite's music sharing accounts I found today while putting Moratheia into search engines:

https://soundcloud.com/moratheia
https://soundcloud.com/rathmor

I recognize some tracks from the demo here. I feel like it's been a long time since I heard of Moratheia last, but it looks like the last contact was July of this year, so it's not really that long ago. I haven't got much done myself (without a day job) in the same amount of time. Or at least not that I can recall or not that I can show for myself.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on May 26, 2020, 03:03:49 PM
Here's an old/new shot from the "Moratheia 2.1" demo. I think this is my favorite shot in a SOM game so far. It's very cinematic/photogenic. I usually criticize Ben's game for being too dark, because I can't see it on my monitor, but I don't know if he's intentionally aiming for these kinds of deep dark scenes or if it's just by accident this scene turns out this way. It's the first house you're likely to visit in this demo.

I'm resharing it to show off a new do_sharp effect, that adds a degree of hitherto unseen sharpness that rivals commercial games that use oppressive image-based antialiasing techniques (that kill your frame rate and won't work on budget systems.) The effect is lost more to still images than the old one. The full effect must be seen in motion.

The new technique is stupidly simple, it just replaces one of the halftone images with an unfiltered image. That's why you see halos that can be up to two pixels. But in motion they are changing every frame and your eye blends them together so you don't seem them as halos.

It looks good enough in game to be worth ditching the old double half-tone image that was too blurry. You can see it in some of the screenshots here, except many of them are dithered shots. I used to really like the dithered/stippled effect, but the new effects have come a long way, and I haven't been able to use the dither/stipple effects personally for a long time because my recent monitors are too fat in the pixel dept. Dither only looks good if you can't discern individual pixels from a distance. The market for monitors has plummeted until there are only like two bare bones monitors at the stores. Samsung doesn't even make monitors that you can plug in and configure two separate inputs for. It's weird how we are going backward with the march of time.

Edited: For the record I haven't heard from Moratheia's author in a very long time, or what seems like a long time to me anyway. He actually made a post in here a while back, in this sub-board, but he didn't hang around after, which is pretty ****ing typical of him.

Update: For the record, by crazy coincidence I overturned this effect the very next day, so this reply/image is not representative of anything. There was nothing wrong with it, but it turned out the problem it was meant to solve never should have existed. See the next reply for details.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on June 08, 2020, 06:11:03 AM
These are new screens I'm attaching in order to be able to link to elsewhere. They actually have a better version of "do_aa" than in the previous post because I inexplicably found out the very next day that the old effect was actually hobbled by not being shifted over by half a pixel (https://www.reddit.com/r/KingsField/comments/gtcp6t/more_good_news_for_sword_of_moonlight_visuals/) so I've reverted back to the old effect, and have added a complementary effect that works on the textures, which is what these images are really meant to showcase.

(http://www.swordofmoonlight.net/bbs2/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=154.0;attach=1039;image)

This new effect came about because I wanted to use cutouts (colorkey) for the letters on the King's Field II style 3D compass, however the text wasn't good enough, forcing me to consider options.

In these screens the trees and grasses are cutouts, except for the tree trunks, and the new sharper formulation is on display. The closeup on a single blade of grass is actually stronger than the final setting I went with, that had to be more conservative if it was going to be used in the menus. I think I will probably change the blit and/or sprite shaders to lessen the effect so it can be stronger. The idea just occurred to me.

I only just enabled it for UI elements today. You can see that in the screenshot too. I didn't want it to be visually detectable in the UI elements so I scaled it back. But these screens are already taken. You don't get the full effect in a screenshot anyway, and the texture effect as-is is less attractive in screenshots because I made it to spread over an equilateral triangle so that every side is as diagonal as possible.

I've written about it elsewhere already, and I'm about to publish a patch with links to these images. And I'm going to share them with a CMAA author who I've contacted to try to help me to replace the MLAA system with CMAA since it's so much better now. These are algorithms for converting the 1bit cutout mask to an antialiased mask. If I'm really lucky they may even take on this novel technique to give it a technical paper like they have for Intel.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Verdite on August 16, 2020, 02:25:05 PM
Sorry that I missed these. They look amazing.
Sadly, I haven't much news to post in this Moratheia board. As always, I crave and miss my project, but life takes the stern and very often leaves me with no time left to work on it.

EDIT: Thanks for the comment about my game being dark. I always strive to create scenes with atmosphere and mood. Sometimes it isn't easy with SoM.
With the houses, my initial idea upon reviewing them a while ago was to close them down and add more detail instead of roomy space. But after seeing your comment, I'm pleased we share the same idea. The large spaces give a much colder and atmospheric vibe.

I hope to get back soon with some news or information.
Verdite
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on August 18, 2020, 07:24:57 AM
I'm working on arm stuff right now and the modeling tools and conversion programs are a lot better lately since I've been having to do modeling work. I figured out why your models were all body parts piled on top of 0,0,0 ... although it saddens me that I think you probably worked with SOM_MAP like that even though I gave you a way to fix it. But now it doesn't have to be fixed, but I haven't published the new tools, since I'm heavily working on them, but I can give you rushes if you were interested.

In the last two days I've been looking at KF2's music/sound stuff mainly so I can get the sound the weapons make. I found out MIDI playback on Windows is pretty much a joke (I really thought MIDI files would be linked to sound bank files) but I had an idea that SOM is already a MIDI player, it just needs to play the samples like regular screeches (sound effects) at the right time. In fact a decade ago I programmed a piano into it to test the sound effects fix I devised, so I'm coming back full circle.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on August 22, 2020, 04:03:46 AM
I noticed do_sounds is missing from my Moratheia Ex.ini file. I guess I never included it or deleted it. I was a adding a new do_reverb extension when I noticed. Did you ever run into problems with sound dropping out? Unless I recently removed it I've never noticed sound drop out. (My guess is you avoided adding sound sources to make it work without extensions.)

I'm thinking that do_sounds should probably be retired and replaced with a Bugfix extension.
Title: Re: Moratheia
Post by: Holey Moley on April 13, 2022, 08:39:27 AM
I've added a not about fixing trip zones for this old project with the current patch explained here (
http://www.swordofmoonlight.net/bbs2/index.php?topic=330.msg3335#msg3335) and I think I'll upload my Ex.ini file to the OP in case it's any help.